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Jim Edwards: Hey guys, Jim Edwards here and welcome to the next episode of…
The Sales Copywriting and Content Marketing Hacks Podcast with Jim Edwards and…
Stew Smith: Stew Smith.
Jim Edwards: And so today we’re going to be talking about the copywriting mindset, and you’re thinking to yourself…
“Mindset? What does mindset have to do with copywriting?”
And I will tell you that mindset has everything to do with copywriting.
Whether you are an experienced copywriter…
You’re an experienced online salesperson…
Or you’re just somebody who has made the decision like I made back in the year 2001 to say,
“You know what? I need to get better at putting words and pictures on pages that get people to spend money with me.”
So, a few things that I just want to tell you right up front about copy and mindset.
And then Stew and I are going to have a really interesting discussion…
Where we’re going to liken this to the five stages that people go through actually with physical fitness
Because we say, you know, sales copy and content marketing, those are learned skills.
Stew Smith: Yes.
Jim Edwards: Just like learning to get in shape or getting in shape is a learned skill. It’s not like people are born in shape. Right?
Stew Smith: Right. Absolutely. And you don’t have to be an athlete to be in shape.
Jim Edwards: I’m living proof of that.
Stew Smith: Yep, you don’t.
Jim Edwards: Don’t agree so fast! Haha!
So, a couple of things.
I just want to tell you guys were an upfront, you need to get this kind of burned in your brain because this is your mindset.
People think that sales copy and content are two different things, and they’re not.
Sales copy is content, and content is sales copy.
What do I mean by that?
Well, if somebody is really interested in a topic, if somebody is really interested in buying something or considering buying something, they will absorb tons and tons of information about it, and it’s not sales copy.
To them, it’s content. It’s gathering information.
Whereas to somebody else, they might think…
“Oh, this is just a big sales pitch.”
But to somebody else, it’s, “Man! I’m getting the information I need to make an educated decision.”
So when you’re writing content, you’re writing copy…
You don’t need to think of them as separate.
In fact, the best content marketers and the best copywriters write in such a way that you can’t tell the difference between their sales copy and their content.
That’s when you know that you are really smoking it as far as doing is with copywriting.
Stew Smith: Yeah.
Jim Edwards: So, the other big thing that I would tell you, and this is part of your mindset, is that you really have to know your target audience.
You have to know them better than they know themselves. And we have an acronym that we use for that called FRED…
Which is, it’s an acronym for Fears, Results, and a bunch of other things that I’m not going to talk about right now.
I’m going to tease you for a future episode…
But you have to know your FRED better than they even know themselves. And that’s part of the mindset.
It’s being able to create content with that Avatar in mind. It’s really, really important that you’re able to do that.
And then the last thing before we get into this discussion about mindset and the five phases of mastering sales copy…
Is that you have to understand that to get really good with sales copy…
You have to learn the formulas…
and you have to USE the formulas.
Good sales copy and good content follow patterns. Do not reinvent the wheel.
Do NOT worry about having to be so original because you don’t want to sound like something else or someone else.
There are proven patterns that we know work to get people to try…
to buy…
to sign up…
to call…
to click a link…
to take whatever the actions are that you want them to take.
And it’s critical that you learn these formulas, you learn these blueprints.
But on the flip side, once you learn them, you can get results so quickly as opposed to trying to figure this stuff out on your own.
So, that’s another part of the copywriting mindset…
It’s just always looking for patterns…
Always looking for blueprints…
Looking for formulas, and then thinking to yourself…
“Okay… How can I apply this to whatever it is I’m doing?”
I’ll give you a quick example.
So, there’s a formula for creating a sales argument called…
Problem.
Agitate.
Solve.
This is the most tried and true way to get people to buy stuff.
Why?
Because people buy things very frequently to solve a problem.
The other reason that they buy something is to satisfy a desire but if you think about most purchases that you make, there’s some problem that it solves.
I buy a coat because I’m cold. I buy shoes because I don’t want to walk around barefoot.
I buy a dishwasher because the problem is I don’t want to wash dishes.
Now there’s other stuff with traffic temperature, and audience familiarity, and whether they know you, or they’re only thinking about their problem, but the bottom line is that…
Problem, Agitate, Solve…
just works.
Don’t over-ANALyze about why it works.
And so that’s one formula that works really, really well that you can use in a sales letter.
You can use it in a video sales letter.
You can use it even just in a content marketing video.
But…
Problem, Agitate, Solve…
Defined the problem, whatever problem it is that the people have…
Then you agitate the problem. You make it worse. You make it immediate, you make it hurt more.
And then once they’re hurting really badly, you throw them a lifeline. You throw them the solution.
The solution is your product, your service, your software, your widget, your Ecom thing, whatever it is.
And I have made millions of dollars with that one formula… Problem, Agitate, Solve.
And that formula can be used many, many different ways in many, many different lengths.
But that’s the copywriting mindset as far as just some excellent things you need to understand.
Content is copy and copy is content.
Look for formulas, look for blueprints, and use them.
Do not shy away from using them and understand that this is a learned skill.
And before you can be awesome, you have to be good.
Before you can be good…
You have to suck…
And before you can even suck…
You have to try.
So Stew, I have dominated this conversation for the last ten minutes.
Stew Smith: I loved it! But before I get started. I want to say this. You know, I think a copywriting mindset also needs to… You need to get over the fact that you sound too “salesy.” Too salesman-like.
Jim Edwards: Right.
Stew Smith: Get over that fact because that is the, you know, prescription. That is the methods that actually are proven to work.
Jim Edwards: That’s a great, great, great point. I hear that, “Oh. That sounds salesy.”
Good!
Stew Smith: Sure.
Jim Edwards: Good!
And “That won’t work in my market.”
Really?
Stew Smith: Hahaha!
Jim Edwards: Or “I’m in, I’m in B2B. I don’t sell to consumers.”
Really?
Oh well, aren’t businesses…
We’re going to do this in a future episode… I have it up here on my board…
“B2B versus B2C is an effing myth!”
Stew Smith: People are people.
Jim Edwards: Exactly. People buy.
Stew Smith: Yup.
Jim Edwards: Okay.
Stew Smith: All right. So here’s the deal. We have five phases when it comes to goal-setting mindset.
Jim Edwards: Okay,
Stew Smith: Not the goal-setting, but goal-achieving mindset.
Jim Edwards: Okay. And in this case, the goal is to become a proficient copywriter.
Stew Smith: Right? Absolutely. And you know, and it’s really the same phases for anything.
You know, I use the same phase system for fitness… Getting people excited about fitness because number one, you’re excited.
You would not have pushed that “join” button, that “pay” button if Jim did not excite you about, you know, his ability to teach you how to learn to sell more stuff, right?
Plain and simple, right?
So, when you first make that button, you’re motivated, you’re ready to go.
“How do I get started?”
Right?
And now this is really important phase because this beginning phase set you up for all five phases. Right?
Jim Edwards: Okay.
Stew Smith: And the first phase requires you to stay motivated.
Right?
For a little bit. ‘Cause you’re not going to be motivated every day.
But, while you’re motivated, that’s when you put it into the schedule.
Because…
Why?
Jim Edwards: Because if it’s not in the schedule, it doesn’t get done.
Stew Smith: Right. It doesn’t exist,
Jim Edwards: Right.
Stew Smith: So put it in the schedule, right?
And what will happen is you have this daily schedule of you moving a little bit towards…
Learning how to use these tools…
Getting towards your goal.
And when that happens is it creates a habit.
Jim Edwards: Right.
Stew Smith: And that habit yields to discipline and work ethic.
And now you start, you know, your motivation has evolved into discipline.
Jim Edwards: Right.
Stew Smith: And when you’re not motivated, when you don’t feel like doing things, you know your discipline will get you through.
Jim Edwards: Exactly.
Stew Smith: Cause that’s… that’s what’s going to get you through step two because here’s what happens in step two.
Jim Edwards: Can I say something real quick? Step one…
Stew Smith: Absolutely.
Jim Edwards: The types of things that you should be scheduling for…
What we’re talking about here with sales copy and content creation is you need to make the commitment of,
“I’m going to put something out there every single day.”
Whether it’s an ad…
Whether it’s an article…
Whether it’s an offer…
Whether it’s a meme…
Whether it’s something you’re putting something out there with some sort of a call to action on it.
And you’re measuring people’s reaction.
That is the number one thing you need to do…
You need to put a cause in motion every single day.
Pick a time…
Every day…
Schedule it…
Make an appointment…
And do it every single day because that’s how you’re going to get the results that are gonna help you to get better when it comes to your sales copy and your content creation.
So, that’s the number one thing.
You’re excited. Get it into the schedule ’cause like Stu says,
“If it’s not on the schedule, it doesn’t exist.”
So now, phase two.
Stew Smith: Yeah. And let me just close up phase one as this is like, you know, we’re all…
I’m a firm believer of motivation and even though some people say motivation is garbage…
Which I don’t understand why people would say that, but people do… It’s because they’re already on that discipline phase is why they say motivation is garbage. A lot of my military buddies say that…
Jim Edwards: Or they’re bitter know-it-alls.
Stew Smith: Right. You know, so, but here’s the deal. You know, the first step of any journey, you know, it’s critical to getting people moving. And motivation helps you do that.
Jim Edwards: Right.
Stew Smith: However, it has to evolve into habits and discipline.
But when we all started a journey, right, or goal, we all start as a wide-eyed wannabe dreamer. Right?
And what discipline does is, it makes you a doer.
Two different distinctions there.
So that’s why I like to use that motivation to build good habits. Okay. In a nutshell. That’s what we’re doing now.
Phase two, unfortunately…
Self-doubt creeps in…
Time commitments get smaller, right?
You just don’t have the time to do it.
You know, there’s… that’s where, we try to say,
“Keep moving!” and say
“Never quit!”
right?
There’s all these little things that you can do to get through this phase and say don’t listen to that part of your head that’s saying,
“Eh, maybe you should skip today. You know, and don’t do that.” Right?
Jim Edwards: And one of the things that we have to help you over that…
Remember I said that you need to trust in formulas…
You need to trust in blueprints…
You need to trust in patterns…
That’s one of the reasons why we have all of the wizards that we have to help you…
because you don’t have to figure it out on your own.
You just have to focus on creating value for your target audience.
You plug all that into the wizards, and they plug it in automatically for you into the blueprints that we know that work.
So that’s a way to keep you from having that self-doubt and it helps you to keep that momentum going.
Stew Smith: Yeah. My advice in this phase is to
“Don’t listen to yourself… Talk to yourself.”
Okay, I love this one. I knew of it because you need to say things like,
“I can do this.”
“I’m good enough.”
“I’m not going to fail.”
“I’m never going to quit.”
“Keep moving.”
Put it in the schedule, keep moving, and just do it.
All right?
Jim Edwards: I like that.
Stew Smith: That is how you get over self-doubt.
Because here’s why self-doubt happens.
I mean if you’re starting on a fitness journey, right?
What happens about three weeks into it?
Jim Edwards: You have pains you didn’t have before.
Time constraints are kicking in.
There’s other stuff you’d rather have to get done.
Stew Smith: Exactly. The word “resolution” does not even exist anymore. Right?
Jim Edwards: Right.
Stew Smith: By February. It’s like they just, they hit that self-doubt and they never moved to section three of this. Phase three is conquering doubt.
Jim Edwards: Okay.
Stew Smith: And that is when… and it’s an instance, too.
You know, it’s the first few times when you felt like crap, but you did something anyway, right?
You didn’t feel motivated to do something, but you did something anyway, and he got something accomplished.
That’s where those wizards come in real handy…
’cause a lot of times as a writer…
I have some writer’s block, and I don’t know what to write about.
Luckily I have a pretty good following, and I say,
“Hey guys, what do you guys want to see? What do you guys want me to talk about you?”
And that helps. That’s one way to do it.
But the wizards…
Man! They can get things done quick.
All you gotta do is put in some keywords, and they ask you the questions,
Jim Edwards: Right?
Stew Smith: You don’t have to think, you know?
Maybe do some editing, fine editing on the backend, and you’re done.
So conquering doubt, you know, is a big realization.
And something that I learned throughout my military career and you know, going through seal training and all that is that…
When you go through Hell Week, and you complete it…
You realize that your body is 10 times stronger than your mind will ever let it be.
So, it is a lot of conquering self-doubt that gives you that little confidence to move on, even when you don’t feel like moving on.
Jim Edwards: And the funny thing is is when you have conquered doubt…
You won’t know it, you look back and see,
“Oh I conquered doubt. That was a while back.”
And that’s the funny thing. It’s not an event…
It’s a process.
And it’s important.
It’s important to stack up those little wins with some content…
With an offer…
With a link…
With some things so that you build up…
And then you’re doing sales letters…
You’re doing video sales letters…
You’re doing articles…
You’re doing all these things and you’re saying,
“You know what? I know what I’m doing now. I’m getting this done. I’m gaining in my confidence, and I CAN do this.”
Stew Smith: You know what?
You just described – Step Four.
That is Phase Four because you have now created lifestyle changes, right?
You have created this habit of getting things done.
Just like the habit you’ve had for years of brushing your teeth in the morning, right?
You have now created a habit.
And you’re seeing successes not only in sales and things like that, but you’re seeing your work ethic has changed as well.
And you have a new system that is working for you.
Jim Edwards: And you start being more efficient, too.
And you’re seeing, “Okay, well I’m wasting time here…
And I’m spending more time ‘getting ready to get ready’ than just doing it, and I just need to jump in and get it done.”
Stew Smith: Yup. And you’re starting to think of yourself more as an entrepreneur now, right?
Jim Edwards: Yeah.
Stew Smith: Whatever that goal is…
Jim Edwards: I wanna say real quick. I don’t even think of myself as a copywriter.
I think of myself as someone who is good at putting out sales messages and content.
I don’t consider myself a copywriter.
I am an entrepreneur who can do copy.
Stew Smith: Right.
Jim Edwards: And I think it’s important. I don’t ever want to think of myself as a copywriter.
There’s nothing wrong with thinking of yourself as a copywriter, but I’m someone who can do good copy.
I’m someone who can do good content, but I don’t see myself as a copywriter.
Does that make sense?
Stew Smith: Oh, that’s a really good thing. You know, because like with DIY Media Marketing.
We don’t see ourselves as media marketers. We’re just good at media marketing.
Jim Edwards: Right.
Stew Smith: Right. So it’s, it’s very similar.
And, and you can’t be just a business that, you know, sells “X.”
You gotta be a media-marketing-copyrighting business that sells “X.”
And that’s really what this program is all about.
And then step five, finally you’re building on success, and the journey continues…
“So what’s the next step?”
“What’s the next goal?”
Now you’ve achieved that goal, now you’re moving on to the next challenge.
Like for me, like I said, I have been selling books on the same website for almost 20 years now…
And I am going through and going to make that sales copy challenge.
I’m updating all the ebooks.
Doing as much as I can, you know, within the next six months to just update everything.
You know, things change.
And you know, I got lazy with a couple of descriptions.
I remember when I did, and I could do those better.
You know, we can always be a little bit better, even when you go back to the basics.
And I think that is probably one of the most important things to remember, go back to the basics even though you’ve been selling for years.
Go back to the basics and get good at the basics again.
Jim Edwards: Yup. And it’s funny because what happens is we…
We kind of spread out in all these different directions once we have success…
And then we forget the basics, we get away from the basics.
We start cutting corners.
We don’t put the time and energy into our descriptions…
Or our titles…
Or our headlines…
Or our hooks…
Or our stories…
And things start to level off, and we have to come back and just keep going over the fundamentals.
I mean, you love baseball, and you love to watch baseball.
When you go to Oreos Park and when the guys are warming up, what are they doing?
They’re throwing and catching and running and fielding and taking grounders and fly balls.
That’s where…
Stew Smith: Just like they did when they were eight years old.
Jim Edwards: Right. So that’s always getting back to the basics. So that’s, I think that’s a great thing.
That’s a great way to look at it because I think at this point people are like,
“Yeah, I’m going to learn how to be awesome at writing copy and creating compelling content.”
And you ARE going to run into a wall where it’s going to get hard.
But if you use the tools…
You use the templates…
You use the wizards…
You use the things…
You can shorten that period.
But just understand that it’s common.
And that’s okay because on the other side of it…
A lot more sales…
A lot more subscriptions…
A lot more members…
A lot more clicks…
Just a lot more of the goodness that you want.
And just always remember that this is a learned skill.
This is something that nobody’s born knowing how to do. So if they can do it, you can do it.
That’s the thing to understand, and I just would close this by saying, thank you for being a listener to the podcast.
And I would encourage you, make sure that if you’re not already a member of the Sales Copy and Content Marketing Hacks Facebook group…
That you go over and join, you can join. It’s absolutely FREE.
It’s a great community.
We go over tons and tons of cool stuff…
Share tons of value…
And definitely, if you’re interested in learning how to make more sales online by putting words and pictures up and getting people to buy…
This will definitely help you.
So I’m Jim Edwards and for…
Stew Smith: Stew Smith
Jim Edwards: We’ll see you guys in the next episode!
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